I’m sure MCG is slower then a C++ plugin, that doesn’t mean it is a worthless tool, it is a fantastic tool that is allowing those that either don’t have the knowledge or the time to do it in C++. I’m sure if I wrote a particle system in C++ that only created one type of effect I could make it way faster then PFlow, does that mean that PFlow isn’t a fantastic tool?
I don’t know how you brush off OSD either, appears to be good enough for Pixar, but what would they know.
Your posts are often designed to just say Max sucks and nothing more, as is how you started this thread.
Yes you provide all sorts of tests but you are looking at things with a very myopic viewpoint. I’m sure if we asked those in the arch vis arena we would hear of more things that have been added in the last 10 years that have been well worth it.
I fully respect what you can do and your knowledge Denis, I just question your motives at this point.
about the max… i like max … i’m with max for 20 years. my framework is more than 100 tools in almost all max areas… only this year i wrote about 40K lines of mxs and c++ code for max.
i didn’t say anything negative about OSD, and honestly said i don’t know and use it because this is not the area of my interest (maybe just yet).
MCG is a subject of my current interest – high performance plugins. i really want to discuss it and not listen how cool and fantastic it is without any serious argumentation, and without any really useful examples.
i really want more new tools in max. but i want them made good. but most of new features a coming partly made, unfinished and forgotten in this state probably forever.
look at Ribbon tool… it doesn’t have backward response. if you change any parameter of a poly using max modifier panel UI or max script it doesn’t update controls in Ribbon (max UI does it).
try:
$.vertSelectionColor = color 52 52 207
$.vertSelectionRedRange = 51
someone told about Nitrous. but i want to remind that that it was leaving in max 4 years without support for DirectX shaders.
and i can give you another examples like these…
i hope now you can better understand the reasons my scepticism.
DenisT
You started with a general claim ala “nothing cool for long time” and now you narrow down on MCG again, thats not what i’d call straightforward. And i really don’t think that MCG is a tool made for you. I bet using plain maxscript serves you better.
EDIT: i posted this before your previous post came in …
You started with a general claim ala “nothing cool for long time”
i said that there was nothing really impressive for me were added recently. anything the same big as .net integration which dramatically changed and improved tools development.
but i’m very disappointed about many ‘features’ which made a tool unprofessional, overladen and inconsistent in many areas.
i really think that one good solution is better than many quasi…
i like Python and know it very well. this is my basic language for last couple years when i’m focused on maya tools development. i love to have python in max but as a real thing and not as a new toy.
i’m just asking another people to show me what i lost, and point me where i am wrong.
Some of the trouble here is the broad usage for max, “cool tools” to some might not be particularly cool for someone who never presses the render button (or if they do it’s to create a texture) for example. I totally understand where denis is coming from in this for new to work it has to be useable, intuative (as well as familiar). We use to run comprehensive frame rate tests (some of our scenes have quite an overhead even for games) and all versions since 2010 have failed (apart from machines with very high end cards in them). Hands up if you still use biped ?
I think that you need to understand what has been happening and what is now happening Denis.
Yes Max had many years where development stagnated and tools were not completed. This was due to the president of M&E that had a hate on for Max as he was an ex XSI guy and like Maya hated Max. His goal to to destroy Max by making sure that it couldn’t be developed. The Maya team believe it or not was allow to tell the Max team what they could and couldn’t work on. This made sure that tools that were wanted were not added and tools that were added were not completed. And this is the same guy that was responsible for killing XSI and moving that team onto Maya projects and then when he was canned voiced that Autodesk was wrong for killing XSI.
Move on to present day. The Old president was given his walking papers and a new one hired that wasn’t part of the media entertainment field that had no ties to Max or Maya. When he dug into the numbers what he found was disturbing. His predecessor was reversing the numbers on Max and Maya to show that Maya was used more and made more money. Now it has some to light that Max is indeed the most used M&E tool and the third most in Autodesk, Maya is not in the top 10.
A new PM was hired, Eddie, who now has the ship on a clear path and has shown that Max is a tool to invest time and effort into. The team has added many many new people as it was stripped of developers under the old administration and those developers are on track to correct the issues of the last many years.
Interesting to note that Maya has tried to build something for the last 3/4 years like MCG and have not been able to make it work but in one cycle the Max team built a fantastic tool that when seen by the old ICE developers said that it is what they were trying to do with ICE but couldn’t.
Does Max have lots of holes in it, you bet, I have a list as long as my arm, both arms, and maybe my legs. But I can tell you that when I use Maya it has just as many holes in it. My bet right now is on Max making the biggest changes between the two. For instance OSD is better implemented in Max than it is in Maya and Maya has had it longer.
I did my fair share of bitching over the last number of years I can tell you as I know as well as any one the mess that was created. I can tell you that I now have full faith in the Max team to deliver some fantastic new tools. Many of those tools may not be of any use to you or my self but it doesn’t mean they are not fantastic tool.
you’ve just confirmed by you lecture about “Conspiracy theory” that for many years Max the same as Maya were quit without support. it’s exactly what i say.
if with max 2016 the situation changes (or already changed) i will be just happy.
Be happy then. This doesn’t mean that everything that wasn’t completed was magically fixed. What this means is they are completely aware, as they always have been, of what needs to be fixed and what needs to be added. Of course all things take time but they now have been given way more resources and their hands have been untied. There will always be political issues in a large company like Autodesk but they are seeing the real numbers now and know the full story.
MCG, OSD, XRef and many more things that were worked on in Max for 2016 show what can be done when the team gets the support that it should.
For me MCG is going to be a fantastic tool for quickly solving production problems instead of having to jump to C++ all the time.
What this means is they are completely aware, as they always have been, of what needs to be fixed and what needs to be added.
LOL really ? 90% of every thing in Max is still paramblock version 1, but if it aint broke why fix it eh
Does that mean they are not aware of it and don’t know that it should be fixed?? Or again are you assuming that they can fix everything that you deem to be needed and fix it for you?
I really really would like to get my hands on such a scene
Of course you can’t share those , but i guess you did manual testing too and not only some automated tests ? So you should know the area causing you troubles with >Max2009 versions ?
Thus you should be able to post a representative scene which shows the performance problem you see in all versions >Max 2009 ? I’m really curious about 3ds Max’s performance shortcomings ( and of course especially compared to Maya) , be it factual, historical, method related or plain mythical.
BTW: I still use biped …
Does that mean they are not aware of it and don’t know that it should be fixed?? Or again are you assuming that they can fix everything that you deem to be needed and fix it for you?
they are probably aware of it, but they won’t fix it in my life time anyway, but it cause issues for everyone in one way or another who has to develop in the sdk for max (or at least something that you have to be aware of) so not just for me, oh it’s all about me me me And stuff like this predates the MD from hell by about a decade. Anyway footies on now so i’m off